Is it common for acupuncture to trigger a detox reaction
Hi all,
I realize I'm posting on a forum for TCM proponents, so answers I receive will have that sort of slant, but I just wanted to seek opinions on my experience with acupuncture thus far. My story's kind of long, so apologies in advance for the impending novel.
I've been experiencing progressively worsening neurological symptoms over the course of about 8 or 9 years (started when I was 14, and I'm 23 now). To name a few of my symptoms (I have dozens), I have 24/7 pain on my back right side of my head, trouble recalling words, possible nocturnal seizures (my neurologist doesn't seem to think it's necessary to test for seizure activity even after the technician when I went to have a CT scan of my brain said it sounds like I may be experiencing a form of seizure at night), difficulty concentrating, balance issues, hand and tongue tremors, trouble processing new information, anxiety attacks, random numbness in various parts of my body, frequent urination, chest pain, a rapid heart rate, on and off fatigue, and sensivity to fluorescent and strobe lighting.
I've been to a GP, an internist, and a neurologist. The GP chalked all of my symptoms up to anxiety and prescribed me Xanax, which I never took because I've heard scary things about it and know that my problems extend well beyond anxiety. The internist referred me to the neurologist. The neurologist looked at my CT scan, said he didn't see any abnormalities aside from some volume shrinkage, which he shrugged off as insignificant, and said he wants me to wait 5 more months before putting me on any medications. Frustrated, I told him that, seeing how I've been having these issues for almost a decade, I don't think any magic is going to happen 5 months down the line, and I'd really like to try SOMETHING that can maybe help me get some semblance of my life back. He responded, "I understand that, but at your age, I don't want to put you on a bunch of medications."
So I emailed a local acupuncturist out of desperation and asked if he thought his treatments could help with my issues. He called me, and over the phone, he sounded pretty confident that he could help me with a combination of acupuncture and herbs. However, once I went to see him, he started recommending that I visit all of these specialists, e.g. a cardiologist and a hemotologist, so maybe he no longer thinks TCM alone can help me? I don't know. Anyway, after the first acupuncture session, I felt really spacey for quite some time, which I've read is fairly common. The pain in my head did seem to diminish right after he inserted some of the pins, but it returned with greater intensity shortly after. The following day, I was debilitatingly tired. I work from home and was trying to work on some projects, but I kept falling asleep. I also had bad pain in my chest, back, and arms. I've experienced feelings like this before, so I didn't know whether I should attribute them to the acupuncture or not, but the thought of detox did cross my mind.
I went back for another session two days later, and the acupuncturist did say that I could likely be experiencing a detox reaction, and it could be indicitive of a viral root to my issues. After the second treatment, I felt very spacey again. The pain in my back and chest did diminish for a little while, but it returned within an hour. I'm still extremely tired and fighting to stay awake so I can finish all of the work I have due Sunday.
At this point, I don't really know whether I should discontinue the acupuncture or give it a few months to see if it has any benefits. At the present moment, I really don't feel like it's accomplished much of anything for me. I feel worse, although, as I said, I feel like this periodically anyway, so I wouldn't necessarily blame the achiness and fatigue on the acupuncture. I don't even know if I can attribute the diminishing of my physical pain following treatment to the acupuncture because my symptoms come and go all of the time, and they do tend to be less intense after I've been relaxing for a while. Plus, the physical pain is honestly the least of my worries...I can live with intense pain for the rest of my life and learn to cope with it; the issues that are most troublesome for me are the cognitive issues, tremors, and balance issues, which I've seen no change in at all. I also find the acupuncture needles sort of painful. Not unbearably so, but I don't see any point in continuing to subject myself to expensive discomfort if I'm going to wind up in the same place I started at the end of it.
The acupuncturist hasn't prescribed any herbs yet; he said he's going to start going into that next visit. Herbs sort of scare me because of the lack of regulation, and some of them have some pretty serious potential side effects, but I'm willing to try them.
Anyway, yeah, any input on my experience thus far would be appreciated. Is it at all typical to experience a "detox" reaction following acupuncture, and do you think acupuncture and perhaps herbs could help my condition?
I may not be back for a day or two because I'm really backlogged on work, but I will return to read your responses as soon as I can. Thank you!
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Comments
First my own bias - I
First my own bias - I strongly dislike and am critical of concepts like detox, dormant viral infections, yeast infections and much of the related concepts that come out of alternative medicine practitioners mouths. Some fatigue is normal after an acupuncture session, pain is not, but there is absolutely no way with your symptoms to tie the two together. And there will be some changes in the nature and location of the pain you are already feeling as certain muscles group have less tension in them and other ones start working better - same for structural alignments that will happen as well. It is interesting that people will express distrust in acupuncture when it doesn't work right away, but then when they have some sort of side effect they immediately tie it right to the treatment. In one way it has no or very questionable power and in another way it has all the power in the world. This type of thinking is based in fear and lack of information and trust - which is part of the responsibility of your practitioner to dispel for you and some will happen over time. Personally, I think you have nearly answered your own question when you said "I've experienced these sensations before" but I'll offer some advice. It is entirely unreasonable to put acupuncture on some sort of medical pedestal and think that after 2 treatments you could somehow erase 9 years of worsening complex symptoms. If you want to go this route, which I do suggest, you need to hang in there for at least 3 months. The herbs are also extremely safe, 90% or more have far more of a clinical track record behind them than -any- western medication, and they are regulated - just not quite in the same way as western drugs. That is another fear/misinformation based myth that exists quite a bit. If people actually knew what was in many of the formulas (i.e. many things we already eat) that alone would dispel half of these myths. You have no need to worry, but you do have to put some trust in your body and in the process of healing.
You will also have to trust your practitioner through this process and if you don't, see someone else or don't do it at all. Chinese Medicine is a complex working with the body and as your practitioner unfolds the years of changes that have happened in your body there will be some ups and downs and more than likely at least a few different formulas over time until things stabilize. I wish you the best in this process.
Two statements from my Chinese teacher will come in very important for you during this process:
"Don't overthink it!" (i.e. don't add magic like detoxing, healing reaction, and all that nonsense when there is no place for that) and "Better is Better" the better is better one is very important as it helps you flow with the process of healing - any positive change is "better" - not "I still have x...." - it's better and is moving that way....
Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.
Yin Yang House Acupuncture and Wellness Center
Hi with the exact sympomps -
Hi
with the exact sympomps - which turned out to be lyme - disease - I found a chinese acupuncturist. Just finished 28th treatment with big up and downs. I became completly painfree after 5 months weekly treatment. Now I visit him twice a week but I have to spend a day in bed due to detox reactions. However, I am able to return to work even full -time, which is a huge improvment.
Detox?
Detox is a common phrase for marketing. Your symptoms do sound like some type of seizure activity - petit mal and or temporal lobe epilepsy. EEG recommended. However I have treated patients very effectively for petit mal seizures with acupuncture and Chinese herbs.Sorry it took so many days
Sorry it took so many days for me to return to this. Thanks for the responses, all.
How do I say this nicely? Chad's seemingly defensive response to my failure to blindly accept TCM is exactly why I've shied away from asking questions in the past. It seems a good number of proponents of unconventional (in the West) health practices get really defensive the moment you so much as ask a question about their school of medicine when, in reality, when it comes to my health, I question Western medicine just as much (hence why I never took that Xanax my GP prescribed). Maybe I wouldn't have hoped to see more immediate results with the acupuncture if the acupuncturist hadn't told me that many people notice significant changes after one session, not to mention all of the accounts I've read where people who have had acupuncture claimed that they felt benefits after the first treatment. I didn't just pull that hope/expectation out of thin air. I also didn't chalk my general achyness and fatigue up to a detox reaction; I thought it was more likely coincidental and had nothing to do with the acupuncture since I've felt like that periodically in the past. The acupuncturist was the one who seemed convinced that it was related to his treatment.
Anyway, my acupuncturist gave me Lightning Pearls by Classical Pearls to try today. Is anyone familiar with it? I read that Classical Pearls is an extremely new company, and the lack of information about them on the Internet makes me a bit wary. It is my understanding that this particular formula targets viruses and such in the brain, and that scares me since I know that treating brain issues can be fatal if done improperly. Does anyone know anything about the safety of these pills?
As for checking for seizure activity, I have an appointment with my neurologist in 3 weeks, and I'm going to request a sleep study. If he won't do it for whatever reason, I'm finding a different neurologist.
I'm not sure how you could
I'm not sure how you could read my very critically written response as a defense of acupuncture and recommending you blindly accept TCM?? You may want to re-read what I said. With no other verbiage I said your practitioner is likely operating on unsound principles from my perspective, you, largely due to your practitioner, have unreasonable expectations of what to expect from acupuncture and the process, and you should be very cautious of people who mix terminology like this but supposedly operate under the auspices of TCM.
In short find a practitioner who you trust and tells you things that make sense to you - not just what you might want to hear like you'll feel much better after one treatment....
For that particular herbal formula it's actually a modification of an old TCM formula - so it's not new by any reasonable account except for being slightly modified. The company, yes, the herbal formula not really... And, it doesn't have anything to do with killing viruses in the brain and if that's what your practitioner told you my above information stands - find another one. The best way to understand the formulas is to take a list of the individual herbal ingredients and go to our individual herb database and look them all up. It will greatly de-mystify the herbs (as I wrote earlier) so that you won't be operating under a fear premise (not good for healing!).
Again, I could not be any further from recommending you blindly accept TCM - rather you find someone you trust and you work with them. If they don't make sense to you and you doubt everything they say - find someone else or go a different route entirely.
Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.
Yin Yang House Acupuncture and Wellness Center
From the pdf on Lightning
From the pdf on Lightning Pearls from the Classical Pearls website: "Kill viruses, spirochetes, protozoan parasites and other microbes
invading the brain."
http://www.classicalpearls.org/downloads/formulas/LightningPearls.pdf
The targetting viruses in the brain thing is not something that my acupuncturist told me. He told me the formula was to "calm the nervous system." While researching the formula, numerous resources indicated that Lightning Pearls is intended to kill viruses, parasites, etc. in the brain, something that worries me greatly.
I don't think finding another acupuncturist is going to be the answer. I'm not sure there is anything that is going to be the answer; I'm pretty close to just not going to doctors of any sort any longer and reverting back to just accepting that this is how I'm going to live from now on, perhaps at least until I'm old enough for doctors to quit looking at my age and dismissing me as a case of anxiety and/or hypochondria because they're so convinced that I'm too young to have all of the problems I report. Frankly, I don't have the money to continue paying for things that MIGHT work. There aren't too many other acupuncturists in the area either. The one my dad saw badgered him incessently for money and apparently didn't even incorporate tongue and pulse diagnosis into his treatment plan, and the other one is a woman whose website is full of advertisements for detox juices.
Just wanted to note that I
Just wanted to note that I called and spoke directly with a rep at Classical Pearls, and he confirmed that Lightning Pearls IS intended to target parasites, viruses, spirochetes, and pathogens in the brain.
Expectations of Healing
Hi,
Just a short contribution to your situation. I feel it is really important as a consumer of Acupuncture, herbs or any other healing modality for that matter, to be aware of what the expectations are from your end. I hope your practitioner has made that clear or can clarify if he/she hasn't already. From experience a condition like your own would require a concerted effort on several fronts. Acupuncture and herbs will help. Adequate sleep will be equally (perhaps more) important. As unpleasant as it may be to read, most people I've seen successfully address a condition like your own did need to address their workload (maybe even make healing the absolute priority) for some time.
Hi Andrew, Thank you for your
Hi Andrew, Thank you for your reply. Well, cutting out my work is just completely unfeasible unfortunately. Due to my health issues, I still live with my dad work from home (My condition is too unpredictable to have a "real" job. One moment, I'm feeling okayish, and then suddenly I can hardly think straight or balance. I had to leave class several times when I was in school because of this). My dad is very resentful of this, and if I just stopped working all together, he would never have it. That said, my work load isn't really that large. At my current main gig, I have to put in at least 30 hours a week, so it's not a huge workload. My biggest issue that does get me in trouble is procrastination; I tend to put off working the first half of the week and wind up working 10 hour days over the weekend.
As far as lifestyle things on my end, the acupuncturist has mostly focused on stabilizing my sleep patterns, something that is unfortunately way easier said than done.
Quick update: I had a very
Quick update:
I had a very adverse reaction to the herbs. A couple of hours after taking them for the first time, I felt extremely spacey, almost to the point of disorientation, and the 24/7 headache that I normally have was about 10 times worse. I also felt very off-balanced and was more sensitive to sounds and lighting than I normally am. I am waiting for input from a few doctors on the safety of these herbs, but I'm pretty close to throwing my hands in the air and just accepting that there isn't anything out there that will help me.
Hi Freefallin, I was trying
Hi Freefallin,
I was trying to look into this formula for you a little bit, but the link that you gave for lightning pearls isn't any good. I did come across some information on a different acupuncture blog discussing some of the formulas from that particular company. Rather than go into detail, I suggest you read what this practitioner has to say about these formulas:
http://ancientway.com/blog/?p=578
In addition, I would be curious to know what your TCM diagnosis is from your acupuncturist's point of view and to compare that to the ingredients in Lightning Pearls. Does the Lightning Pearls contain aconite? If so, some real caution should be exercised here.
Regards
Terry M. Chen, L.Ac.
Hi Terry,This particular
Hi Terry,
This particular formula does not contain aconite. However, some of the other formulas that I think the acupuncturist plans to give me in the future do, which is why I've been debating whether I want to continue with him for the past week or so; I voiced my concerns about aconite to him (after reading that blog you posted. I read that several weeks ago), and he told me that aconite WASN'T toxic. However, a zillion other sources state otherwise, and I don't think I can ever be comfortable consuming something so widely recognized as a potentially fatal neurotoxin and cardiotoxin.
He hasn't given me a definitive diagnosis yet. I'm going to ask him what he feels in my pulses when I see him next. He's just told me that a lot of my symptoms are consistent with Lyme, but ultimately, there's no telling what's going on for certain since my symptoms are so inconsistent and all over the place. The only thing he can say for certain is that I have a lot of neurological issues.
And yes, Classical Pearls seems to have removed the public info on their herbs from the Internet once again (apparently they've done this in the past). This is something else that definitely makes me wary. It makes me question why they do not want the public to have access to information about their formulas.
These are the ingredients in the Lightning Pearls listed on the bottle:
Eleutherococcus gracillistylus (wujiapi), Lilium brownii (baihe), Angelica dahurica (baizhi), Lonicera japonica (jinyinhua), Forsythia suspensa (lianquiao), Angelica sinensis (danggui), Ligusticum sinense (chuanxiong), Scrophularia ningpoen
sis (xuanshen), Smilex glabra (tufuling), Artemisia apiacea (qinghao), Dispacus japnicus (xuduan), Gingko biloba leaf (yinxingye), Acorus gramineus (shichangpu), Curcuma aromatica (yujin), Lycopus lucidus (zelan).
So while acupuncture and
So while acupuncture and Chinese Medicine are very effective for a wide variety of physical, mental and emotional issues, proper and effective treatment must follow from an acurate diagnosis. Without an acurate diagnosis according to TCM principles any treatment plan would be haphazzard. The main thing I would want to know if I was going to a practitioner is what is my diagnosis according to Chinese Medicine principles and how does the point prescription/ herbal prescription address my condition based on my diagnosis?
Terry M. Chen, L.Ac.
Well, in his defense, my
Well, in his defense, my symptoms are so all over the place and inconsistent that they don't obviously point in the direction of any condition. Whereas most people with chronic conditions talk of "bad days" and "good days," I have "bad hours" and "good hours." It's not at all uncommon for me to wake up feeling horrific, experience nagging chest pain two hours later, feel good a half hour after, then begin feeling off-balanced along with brain fog, then feel good for two hours, then develop numbness in my chin, then develop an incessant ringing in my ear the next hour, etc. There's seemingly no rhyme or reason to any of it, which is probably my biggest source of frustration. I can't tell doctors that my headache is better in the mornings or worse after I eat because I haven't identified any patterns like that; I just know that I have a plethora of syptoms that come and go seemingly haphazardly.
He's even said that he's felt different things in my pulse on different visits (although he hasn't specified what), and my tongue also looks different seemingly from day to day. The first time I saw him, the tip was red and inflamed. The next time it wasn't. Sometimes it's more of a reddish color, and sometimes it's a pale pink. There are just no apparent consistencies for him or anyone else to work with.
Maybe it's just impossible for anyone to figure out what's going on, and maybe I'm just a giant medical enigma, heh.
He gave me the Lightning Pearls because it's designed to address issues with the nervous system, but what exact issues he's dealing with, I don't imagine he knows.
Terry, you mentioned that
Terry, you mentioned that extreme caution should be taken if taking formulas containing aconite. What type of cautions do you mean?