Breech babies

Comment by Archived User

Hi there

I specialise in acupuncture in pregnancy and beyond. I have turned many breech babies (and had one of mine turned, too!). I have also induced many labours. Let me assure you Bl 67 is NOT an induction point. At no time in any stage of induction, or labour, is Bl 67 routinely used.

Needles are not normally used for breech presentation, moxa alone should do it. Make sure the practitioner you see is experienced in BOTH acupuncture AND pregnancy. There are lots of good acupuncturists who have little experience of pregnancy. They should be able to palpate you, note the fetal lie, and find the fetal heart. This has to be done before and after any procedure. But, a doctor/physio/midwife with a weekends training in sticking needles in won&#39t do either. The person who treats you should be able to take and interpret pulses, read tongues, and adapt treatments accordingly.

Good luck with the turning! And the rest of your pregnancy.

Comment by Archived User

Thank you very much for your reply!!

I think it was a you tube video that mentioned BL67 as part of the induction points (together with SP6 and BL60 I think). I feel reassured now.

I must admit that I was a bit naughty and I already tried acupreasure, as I usually use it for other minor llness/symptoms and it always works for me. Is it a bad idea in this case? I tried 5/10 min each side, and baby started moving immediately! He then spent most of the night wriggling and kicking, and now he&#39s settled in a rather ackward position so I&#39m getting worried...

I would really appreciate any advise! many thanks!

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

Here is our treatment page for breech presentation.

Comment by Archived User

Hi there

Using a bit of acupressure won&#39t do any harm. But, reaching &#39down there&#39 is not easy for you and it&#39s better for someone else to do it. Second, the moxa itself has an effect. By applying the intense heat to the extreme bladder point, it changes the polarity of the whole meridian. The bladder meridian runs down the spine, over the uterus area and onto the foot, ending at Bl67; the theory is this is interacts with the baby&#39s bladder meridian and pulls that into alignment, too. I don&#39t know about that, I only know it is very effective! There&#39s no reason why you cant buy moxa sticks and get your partner to do it. However, it is always best to have a fetal heart check on a regular basis (I am an ex-obstetric and neonatal nurse - just my medical paranoia!!), in which case enlist the help of your midwife. What country are you based in?

Moxa sticks can be bought online via ebay, they are really cheap. After you have had the baby get back to me and I can tell you how to use it to help your recovery.

Kind regards

Isobel Yeomans (UK)

Comment by Archived User

Thank you so much for getting back to me. I&#39d started to get really paranoid I could have done some harm!

I don&#39t know if it is just a coincidence, but my baby/bump feels very different today (and very uncomfortable). If you say that accupressure should be fine I&#39ll try again and see if it helps. And I will buy some moxa too. I have a fetal stethoscope I could use, but I see your point about asking my midwife, although I do not know her opinion about stuff like this yet. (I&#39m based in Newcastle, UK).

Thanks again!

Kind regards, Ana

Comment by Archived User

Experience says many gynecologist doctors trained in Europe learn to turn the baby around with their hands, during labor. Also Mayan uterine massage might help you and the baby. If the above methods don&#39t work, you might see if there such medical professionals are in your area.

Comment by Archived User

If your baby feels like it is in a very different position, you may want to check in with your midwife to see if the baby has flipped head down. Is it uncomfortable in your pelvis? Sometimes the head diving down can create pressure that you arent used to. I also tell my clients with breech babies to spend plenty of time of hands and knees and also do flips in a swimming pool and swim and play like a dolphin. This helps create room for the baby to move.

Jasmine

Comment by Archived User

thanks Jasmine!

I saw my midwife yesterday and she seemed to think that the baby was now head down (although she was not 100% convinced herself). I feel most big movemnets on the top right side of my bump, but I do feel more presure in my pelvis now (sometimes I even feel I&#39m about to pee myself!).

Comment by Archived User

Hi..... As a practitioner, I have used moxa on UB 67 to turn the babies position. The first time was astounding, even to myself. The baby reacted immediately and promptly began to reposition himself.

Sadly the mother , an osteopath, was killed in the recent Christchurch earthquake, and the son is now a typical healthy teenager.

Comment by Archived User

One of my acupressure teachers, who&#39s also an LAc, says that UB 67 causes a baby to become uncomfortable and move around, eventually re-positioning correctly for the birthing process.

She teaches that holding UB 67 can cause a baby to re-position her/himself.

Sounds like that&#39s what&#39s happened in your case, dbl3alt.

Congrats!

Comment by Archived User

Hi there

It sounds as if junior has taken matters into their own hands! Breech babies can often turm themselves at this stage, and the chances of turning the wrong way up again are remote, as the head is the heaviest part of the body and likes to be down.

Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy. As you know, acupuncture/Chinese Medicine has many effective interventions for pregnancy, labour and postnatally. Feel free to ask if you need any more advice or info. You have our email address so for UK info, please don&#39t hesitate to contact us.

@Michaelangelo. What a tragic tale.

Comment by Archived User

To be honest, I wish I had a scan or something to confirm which way he is now, as I am totally confused...! I still have a big hard lump underneath my ribs, sometimes I&#39m convinced it&#39s his head, but sometimes it seems too broad for a head......

What would happen if I continue with the moxa just in case? If he has indeed turned head down, would it make turned back up again??

Thanks!

ps: does anyone know a good way to tell apart a head from a bum? ;-)

Comment by Archived User

Using moxa won&#39t make the baby &#39turn&#39 again. If there is any doubt then a scan will probably be organised; you should certainly ask if the m/wife isn&#39t clear.

The only way to tell a head from a bum is if you can &#39ballott&#39 the lump. This means being able to bounce it between your fingers. A head is moveable, a bum isn&#39t. It&#39s not for you to do this but a midwife or obstetrician. From your part, the best way is to pay attention to the little movements, and see if you can spot fingers waggling. While not accurate, it can indicate which way the baby is lying.

I suggest you get proper answers if the situation is not clarified in a week. You will be 36 weeks by then and you need to be making decisions. Your centre may have a policy of doing cesars on breech babies and you need to know what your choices are.

Comment by Archived User

Many thanks Yeoman, yes, my m/wife has already said she&#39ll refer me for a scan by 36weeks (as she&#39s not too sure herself) and will give me my options based on that.

I&#39ll look out for the little hands in the meantime!

Comment by Archived User

To turn the baby, best treatment time is 3:00PM-5:00PM, the patient should relax whole body&#39s muscle and meditation the baby&#39s turning during the doctor&#39s needling or moxa on the one side UB67, at the same time the patient can feel warm energy through Ub channel go up to body and the baby&#39s movement inside. So you need see a acupuncturist to do the treatment.

Comment by Archived User

Acupressure or acupuncture treatments once a week during the course of a pregnancy can work "wonders" for mother and child.

My teacher, who explains the effects of UB 67 on a baby as making it uncomfortable, causing it to move around till its head is down, tells - from experience - that babies whose mothers have received acupressure once a week throughout the pregnancy have slept through the night within a week of birth. There are other benefits that I don&#39t recall at the moment.

There are no special "pregnancy points" used during such treatments, "just" balancing the mother&#39s energy as needed each week. Of course, forbidden points are avoided until they&#39re no longer forbidden.

If affordability is an issue, one may be fortunate enough to have a community acupuncture clinic in ones area. They are run by LAc&#39s and provide treatment at very low cost so that a much broader range of people can afford them.

Community acupressure clinics are now also beginning to arise.