Qi gong

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

My teacher, Gin Soon Chu, has a center in NYC that is run by an excellent Tai Chi practitioner - Sifu H. Won Gim. They are the real deal as far as authentic Tai Chi goes. Other than that for Qi Gong you probably don&#39t have to be as discerning, just find a class you like. For people with just general interest in improving their health and energy most qi gong routines are better than doing nothing. If you cannot find anyone nearby we have a couple books for our two main systems - Da Peng Gong and Tai Chi Dao Yin - both of which are quite good and easy to learn from the text. And we have some beginner Tai Chi videos - the 15 movement small frame Tai Chi form (more internal) and the 12 movement large frame Tai Chi form (more external) (both of these are done by Vincent Chu, Grandmaster Chu&#39s eldest son). If you learn from the videos and just wanted some quick corrections, etc., I&#39m sure Sifu Gim can help with that and Gordon, Grandmaster Chu&#39s youngest son, is in NYC a bit and can help as well.

Comment by Archived User

I was taken aback by your comment: ".....For QiGong you probably don&#39t have to be too discerning." Why would you not be discerning about cultivating your life force?? !! Does the acquisition of Qi mean so little that you would trust any kind of instruction to cultivate it? Do you believe in Qi at all?

Are you aware of the DSM&#39s statements that improper Qi cultivation can lead to mentally challenged states?

As someone who has trained in Taiji and QiGong for 45 years, I can tell you honestly that you cannot "learn it" out of a book.

The gentleman needs Medical QiGong training.

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

Ted, I would suggest you consider a few things before coming off so elitist. First, consider who you are writing to. Second, consider whether or not your comment helps the original poster in any way shape or form, which is the ultimate purpose of our forums. And, finally, pay close attention to what I actually wrote.



If you would look through some of my other writings you would realize a few things. One that I have written about running fire and other qi gong deviations previously and very often write cautions, etc. about proper qi gong and tai chi training. Second you would have noted that my teachers are extremely qualified and in authentic lineages and I am qualified in my own right.



There is a problem with many practitioners in the martial arts who feel they have "accomplished" something. They tend to look at other avenues of training as inferior or worse just plain garbage. The problem with this is the same with any elitist stance in that there is both many avenues to accomplishment and there are differing levels of accomplishment for different people.



In a public forum such as ours you need to always keep in mind proper context. In this post for example the person was simply asking a direct question about getting started with qi gong. They were not asking about becoming an advanced martial artist, about developing powerful fa jin, about becoming a gifted medical qi gong healer, about floating, fasting for weeks, or anything else - simply about how to get started. My suggestions were appropriate and to the point for this particular person in this post, nothing more, nothing less.



There are a multitude of qigong routines that can easily be learned, safely and effectively, from books and/or DVD&#39s like the ones I mentioned in the absence of personal instruction. True, this is not always ideal. Yet, if you paid close attention to my post you would have read this - "For people with just general interest in improving their health and energy most qi gong routines are better than doing nothing." And this is true. Not everyone has access to a teacher and not everyone even cares to take it that far. But for those general practitioners they will learn something that relaxes them, improves their circulation, and they will be better off for it. The dangers of qi gong and tai chi come more (nearly exclusively so) from over practice and incorrect/forced breathing and not from qi gong itself. Most accomplished practitioners understand this and let go of their fear and trust in the naturalness and organic nature of qi gong movements.



The truth is that most beginners, except perhaps for very rare few with extremely heightened natural sensitivity, neither practice enough nor move enough energy to create any significant disruptions.



Along that thought, not everyone wants to take their practice deeply. Some will start, learn some basic techniques, get some benefits and leave it at that. Others will start in one fashion or another and have a desire to delve more deeply into these arts. For those instruction will be required. Again, this is not the persons case and scaring people from qi gong to make yourself seem more accomplished is both unethical and shows a poor understanding of that organic nature of qi gong.



To continue with the importance of a teacher, yes, for accomplishment it is crucial. But ask yourself this. Would you learn more from a textbook written by Yang Cheng Fu, for example, than you would by a teacher with 3 years of experience even though you are meeting them personally? Obviously in this case the text is valuable. And while deep levels of these arts are unattainable and even dangerous without personal instruction from an accomplished master, this is not what most people are looking for. They will find that if and when they need to. Many of these teachers will not even take beginners, they expect at least some level of accomplishment before they will even teach.



As far as teaching goes, again if you read my post, you would see that I referred the poster to a very senior student of a well respected, purely authentic lineage holder of the Yang style of Tai Chi Chuan - not just some run of the mill instructor. Grandmaster Chu is respected around the world in Tai chi and in other martial arts circles not for his academic knowledge, his large seminars, or whatever other garbage teachers stand on rather he is respected for his verifiable, tested, and demonstrable abilities. Obviously I care about the quality of instruction when it is available and appropriate.



You would also note that the two DVD&#39s I recommended are of this style, can be at least started from the DVD and then when time permits can be corrected, etc. by this teacher who has classes near the poster (which I also mentioned in my comment). Again, not everyone can attend classes on a regular basis. The books I recommended are from another senior student, an extremely gifted qi gong healer, again with verifiable results, and years of experience. They talk about running fire, etc. not controlling the breath and all of the important points for those who need to learn in the absence of personal instruction. They are not just books with pictures of movements. In fact the books are 95% theory, cautions, etc. and 5% about these very simple easy to learn and effective routines. And, again, yes, you can learn and derive great benefit from these dvd&#39s and books.



From your perspective the high percentage of the world that has no access to accomplished instructors should just sit down and wait until they are reborn into a place where such exists. This I don&#39t agree with, nor will anyone else.



I won&#39t even entertain your statements about qi except to say that qi is not a belief system, so, no, I don&#39t "believe" in qi - it simply exists as does qi gong in all its naturalness and I&#39m thankful for that and am happy to share that with others in whatever way they can take it in.

To summarize in very easy terms:

Question - I want to Jog 1/2 mile 3 days a week for health.

Ted - Find a professional coach and don&#39t move an inch until you are carefully guided into being a fully accomplished runner.

Chad - Then jog if you want, it&#39s better than sitting on the couch. If you like it and want to run some races later ask around and get some tips from friends/more experienced runners. If you want to go to the Olympics after that, find a professional coach.

-- The short to take from all of this - don&#39t make qi gong into something mystical and proprietary that only those in the know can do. It&#39s natural, just enjoy it.

Comment by Archived User

Chad, I would suggest you actually read what the poster actually said. I might remind you that being a good webhost and being a good healer/teacher have something in common – listening skills and reading skills to what is actually stated.

The poster stated they were, “ ….a visual artist and does life body casting……..and their energy is sapped while those around him feel energized. “ He was asking for help on this matter. The poster did not say he was a beginner or was even looking for Taiji – you assumed that and missed the point totally – he was looking for QiGong.

Having one’s energy drained is a common problem when working with the public. The poster was not asking for beginning QiGong skills as you incorrectly stated, but was asking how to protect himself from being drained!

On this topic, and aside from our own prejudices, (yours and mine as we are human), Judith Orloff, M.D. speaks about energy vampires and how they can sap you. Many other unbiased sources have discussed this practice as well, such as the Discovery Channel. What Dr. Orloff is speaking of is a Medical QiGong technique of self-protection – not beginning QiGong or Taiji.

Your rant about your assumptions about me is totally unfounded and uncalled for in a public forum especially the remark about being unethical. What is unethical is a practicing acupuncturist who does NOT believe in Qi and self promotes his own style. Furthermore, suggesting that one needs a “real” teacher for Taiji but not so much for QiGong has several people in the QiGong community already angry.

As someone who had worked with the American Lung Association and American Respiratory Alliance, for over 17 years doing seminars and camps for children and adults with asthma, COPD and panic disorder, I understand what the public brings to a class. Many of these individual have read books and were confused by them and many of them had exacerbations of breathing problems by trying to follow techniques out of books. Informing the public and creating educated consumers is paramount in a public forum – that is your responsibility.

If you would have read my post, I said that QiGong cannot be learned from a book (and I still believe that, although they are wonderful adjuncts to ones personal instruction) – I made no mention of a DVD. A quality DVD I do agree can be a substitute if one cannot find an instructor nearby. Additionally, many people are willing to travel for quality instruction and frequently do and have done this for eons.

I would suggest that you support The National QiGong Association, an independent non-profit whose mission is to educate the public with quality teachers and resources. You can do a search for teacher of QiGong in your area. Find them at www.nqa.org. This would be far better than suggesting one system or one teacher based on what is sold on your online store.

To summarize in easy terms:

Client question - I want to jog ½ mile 3 days a week for health.

Chad – Go ahead and start – it’s harmless.

Ted – Do you have any previous experience jogging or any medical conditions that would be contraindicated?

Client – Yes I do – thank you for caring to ask.

In short, QiGong is a very powerful healing system that should be given respect and experienced by everyone, like eating – it is a natural act; but care should be taken in what you put in your body/mind.

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

1) Qigong vs Tai Chi



Tai chi is qigong. So is wild goose, yi jin jing, the 8 brocades, along with other structured systems - hsing yi, bagua, etc. I completely understand the distinction you are making and use it myself (even in that post) but In this context the distinction you are making is only to argue.



2) I only recommended Tai Chi?



I recommended two easy to learn qi gong routines that we teach and have found effective and mentioned there are others. And I mentioned two short forms of Tai Chi, one being a very internal form (i.e. basically a "qi gong" routine) - both being easy to learn from the DVD&#39s - and in this case they have someone nearby to check in with.



3) The need for teacher?



Don&#39t get all crazy about what I said, which I&#39ve already clarified. I&#39m not saying there is no need for a teacher when learning qigong (I am a qigong and tai chi instructor after all - so that wouldn&#39t make sense to say my job is not required). Out of the two - one being traditional tai chi and one being the entire range of qi gong (a generalization albeit) - qi gong is much easier to get started with and learn at least something from books and/or dvd&#39s if necessary than tai chi is - which is almost impossible to learn from a dvd, even a well made one - particularly speaking of the traditional long forms. So again, yes, for beginners just dipping into this world they can easily get started with some of the simple forms of qi gong without personal instruction if they have to without doing anything to themselves but creating benefit. It&#39s not like a well written book or well made DVD is devoid of any credible instruction. They can be and often are better than any instructors people have locally (if they have any at all).



Speaking About What You Know?



4) Finally I&#39m certainly not demanding anyone learn "my" system. Not only do I not have a system, I explicitly stated that "there are a multitude of forms." I can only recommend what I know to be effective and authentic - there&#39s nothing wrong with that. If I hadn&#39t known a teacher that was near the poster I probably wouldn&#39t even of mentioned it.



Certification? What Is A Reputable Center?



5) Sure there are some people that don&#39t know what they are doing, but you will figure that out as you go along. And I&#39ve treated plenty of people with running fire so I know all too well what can happen. Unfortunately there are plenty of people who on paper look qualified who have no idea what they are doing. And just as many who have practiced for years and have gotten no where. Ultimately though you can learn something from nearly anyone when you are a beginner and it&#39s always going to be better to start than not to start. You will find the path after you take your first step not before. How else will you know what you are looking for. It&#39s not like there are rogue qi gong instructors all over the country wreaking havoc with peoples qi - give it a break already....

Comment by Archived User

There are simple Qigong styles for health which are easy to learn and can be learned from a good DVD. Serious illnesses require a medical Qigong specialist, a diagnosis and a individualized prescription. In addition, the patient must practice for hours daily.

Recent research conducted at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, published in the Nov. 14 online issue of the Journal of the American College of Cardiology, indicates that even moderate exercise can greatly reduce the risk of heart attack for seniors.

They used certain biomarkers, which were tied to heart injury that was otherwise undetectable, but were associated with a higher risk of death by cardiovascular disease.

The study consisted of 2900 subjects over the age of 65. They were tracked for their biomarkers along with their levels of physical activity.

The researchers concluded that not only did the biomarkers lower as physical activity went up, but that the probability of heart failure went down. They additionally concluded that even moderate amounts of exercise in seniors dramatically lowered the risk of death by heart attack.

This gives support for the beneficial effect of nonstrenuous Qigong for health. If the exercise studied was Qigong, they probably would have obtained even better results.

Comment by Archived User

Yoga and Tai Chi have become popular worldwide. They appear in commercials and are taught in many fitness and community centers. Seniors and the sedentary are persuaded that Yoga and Tai Chi are ideal for their health. In addition, Tai Chi is described as being very easy to learn and practice. Not as many people are familiar with Qigong, a mind, body, breathing discipline which originated in China thousands of years ago.

These arts have become westernized, commercialized and altered from their original purposes and forms. The following information will encourage you to study, learn and research about the history, theory, safety and true purposes of these arts before choosing one of these disciplines to study.

There are hardly any Yoga teachers that teach Yoga for its originally intended purpose. Yoga had no connection with health, but was just a spiritual discipline; you could not pay for true Yoga lessons - see "What is Yoga? Yoga therapy?" at


Be careful in practicing Yoga poses, especially seniors and the sedentary; don&#39t believe the so-called experts. See its dangers at



....



Unfortunately, Tai Chi is following the same path as Yoga. Originally Tai Chi was a martial art and had over 100 postures. This main, solo long form required about 5 to six years of dedicated practice to learn correctly. In addition, there were 2- men forms for self-defense.

Nowadays, there are very few teachers that know the 2-men, self-defense forms. Even those that teach Tai Chi for health don’t rigorously follow the principles and claim that the form they teach ( 1- 37 postures or more, but usually less than the long form) has the same benefits as the long form. Logic tells you that 37 postures will not give the same exercise and energy flow as over a hundred.– see “Are You Really Practicing Tai Chi and Is It Effective for Stress?” at



Even teaching the Chen Man Ching short form for health correctly is difficult. The student must have the dedication of a ballet dancer and realize constant daily practice is required. After teaching 100’s of students, less than 1% can even learn this short form.



Prospective Tai Chi students should be informed of the true scope of this art. Most don’t have any idea of the complexities of Tai Chi and are just interested in improving their health. These should be persuaded to study a simple form of Qigong for health. My experience is that nearly 100% of students can learn the Six Healing Sounds. Seniors and the sedentary, especially if only interested in improving or maintaining their health, should learn and practice Qigong for health rather than Yoga or Tai Chi. Qigong is non-strenuous and easier to learn and practice than Yoga or Tai Chi. Qigong has the added advantage that it is effective in helping about 200 diseases.

Comment by Archived User

As a non-professional and certainly not an adept at Qi Gong, I believe that because of the mindfulness, the intent, the internal manipulation of Qi, one should learn from a Master. The exercises themselves, although beneficial, do not in themselves allow the practioner, the student, to "manipulate" Qi. And because the original post referred to being sapped of energy, I personally think that mind intent will play a big part in developing a strong field of energy. My Master advised me to be mindful of whom I practice Qi Gong with because of the nature of internal Qi Gong/Nei Gong practices. He spends a great deal of time in China so I had been interested in practicing at a Buddhist monastary in my city. I have been fortunate because I am intuitive about others but I can still "pick up" for lack of a better phrase, energy from other students/individuals whom I come into contact with. I am working on strengthening my energy field to prevent this and using internal alchemy. I recommend finding a Master to work with. If there is a Taoist organization in the area, a member should be able to direct you to one or more Masters in the art of Qi Gong. You might also approach a Buddhist organization to obtain information. I was introduced to the Master I work with through my TCM doctor. I underwent medical Qi Gong. There is no such thing as luck, only a series of experiences that lead one to that which is needed, in my case, a reputable Master of Qi Gong. I had never heard of the practice until I booked my appointment. If you haven&#39t found someone you can "connect" with, keep looking; it will come. Listen to your inner self-you will be surprised at your own intuitive ability to know the right teacher when you meet him or her.

Comment by Archived User

Quite prolific, you two have’ in your “debate” provided such

Great bunch of resources and advice, thank you.

Secondly I’d like to share something more to the point

of this guy’s questions “how” does He avoid being overwhelmed

by other’s energies. “Sapped”

So I thought I’d share something/a prospective the metaphysical teachers I consult for further learning have recently shared w/me.

They say” Sapping” is not really something one person can factually do to another”

They say’ others can provoke blockages/disconnect between (the healer)

and the healer’s own Connectedness to Source’s) energetic flow. I.e. energetic stamina, vitality. Etc. & so it seems’ that He (the writer,) is on the correct path

By looking into the skill set of Qi working!

I feel like what Chad said is correct’

I have studied Qi work for 20 plus years myself and find that all the Qi exercises are simplistic and effective Hence’

I surmise His’(the writer‘s) self help seeking of energy maintenance skills is’ key.. & although I to honor daily the exercise regimens of Qi working daily, I also would also add’ breathing practices as an essential part

of all energy building and healing programs.

Because (breathing itself is a first class centering practice.

As well as a cure for all kinds of stress & anxiety.

It seems’ one can’t think of or worry about much else

while focusing of one’s breathing“!

I see it as an extremely powerful. expedient and self sufficient

Skill-set in and of it’s self.

Hears Mine a(portable instantly effective breathing system)

Deep breathing a formost Panacea/cure all/

Easy to learn share and perforn, proper breathing and deep relaxation is now known as one the most effective healing forces available any where at any price and its free.

Our breath, or observing our breath’ should be, our default conciseness I.e. where our awareness goes in the moment the mind or body needs re-energizing. or calming down. Meditating or focusing on the breathing instantly returns the awareness of the mind back to the body.

Unabated breath, (count them for one min.) w/or w/out sound. (non resistance).

Minimum breathing; breathing as slowly as tolerable on each breathing action.

Inhale exhale, count them.

Yin-Krea: prolonging each breathing action (inhale) (pausing) (exhaling) (pausing) (inhale)-pause repeat all phases several times.

Normal breath; With each in-breath stomach rises.

Reverse breath; stomach falls back towards spine with each in-breath.

Panting breath; tip of tong presses up to roof of mouth & back of front teeth.

Belly bouncing breath; with tong on roof of mouth and pant with belly rising w/ each in breath.

Fire breath; with tong out, breath in & out rapidly as if polishing a mirror.

Yoga breath; two to four radical breaths in, pose on last in-breath, exhale fully. Repeat 70 times daily, or more.

The (Iron Shirt) hands on abdomen and chest, fingers spared or together, point in opposite directions, scanning/washing with Chi up and down the body.

The (Inner smile) and laughing.

Taoism: the philosophies and exercises.

Connecting the three Chi’s body Earth’s, and Heaven’s,

Learn the five chi-gong energy centers.

Building the three Tantins

Learn to practice Macro and Micro cosmic orbiting exercises.

Lern the 8 Brocades of qi gong. W/Jake Mace, on YouTube.

Knocking on spirits door.

Learn (the three horse stances).

The practice of unconditional acceptance and love with Sheng Zhen