Liver Depression

forum post

Liver Depression

Published on 01-16-2013

"Gina_Rino" has authored 2 other posts.


I have been hearing the term Liver Depression a lot lately. Is this yet another term/translation for something I may have already studied or a different concept all together. IE Is it an Excess or DFNCY condition or neither? It is Etiology? Syndrome? Diagnosis? Thanks.

I have studied:

LR Deficiency - blood yin

LR Stagnation - Qi

LR Heat - XS or DFNCY

LR attacking SP

LR Yang rising

..that's all that comes to mind right now...

This post has the following associations:

Patterns: liver fire, liver qi stagnation

Formulas: jia wei xiao yao wan, long dan xie gan wan, xiao yao wan

Comments / Discussions:

comment by "ChadD" (acupuncturist)
on Jan 2013

This is largely a terminology problem (or an english problem) so to speak. Liver depression is related to Liver Fire and Liver Qi Stagnation. One way to view it as a sort of middle ground between fire (i.e. ascending, problems in the head, etc.) and heat (i.e. more local problems, stronger agitation in the digestion, etc.). So the progession of disease -could- be liver stagnation leads to liver depression (i.e. stagnation generating heat) which may culminate eventually in liver fire (i.e. full ascending heat, problems in the head - dizziness, vertigo, etc.) or may temporarily flare with fire and calm down at times to heat.

Another way to view it might be to say that liver fire is acute and short-term and liver depression (stagnation/heat) is more chronic - but my understanding of the chinese terms is limited.

Herbally it might be read as liver stagnation (xiao yao wan), liver depression (jia wei xiao yao wan), liver fire (long dan xie gan wan) - as examples....

Liver depression appears in Bob Flaw&#39s texts at times and he tends to use terms that are different than those in standard tcm texts (cannot comment at all whether this is good, bad, right or wrong...). So he has:

Liver Depression Qi Stagnation (i.e. qi stagnation)

Liver Depression Spleen Vacuity (i.e. qi stagnation with sp qi def)

Liver Depression Transformative Heat (i.e. qi stagnation with heat signs)

Liver Stomach Depressive Heat and Counterflow (i.e. counterflow qi w/qi stagnation

)There was a discussion on an email list about ten years ago that had it explained as below:

"The full and correct Chinese term for the pattern of liver fire is ascendant

liver fire flaring (gan huo shang yan). The term for liver

depression is either liver depression transforming heat (gan yu hua re) or liver

depression/depressive heat (gan yu, yu re). Fire (huo) is

quantitatively more extreme than heat (re). Because liver fire is shang yan

(ascendant and flaring or flaming), it&#39s symptoms manifest

primarily in the region of the head: headache (as in trigeminal neuralgia), red,

painful eyes, a bitter taste in the mouth, a red facial

complexion. Liver depression/depressive heat&#39s symptoms are not as intense and

are not necessarily located in the head (shang,

upper, above). They include a bitter taste in the mouth, irritability, rib-side

pain, epigastric burning pain, hot, painful nipples, profuse,

bright red-colored menstruation, a shortened menstrual cycle or lengthened

menstrual period, red tongue with yellow fur, and a

bowstring, rapid pulse."

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