Using tmc together

forum post

Using tmc together

Published on 09-14-2023


"anon208255" - this is their first post.

I am taking Wu Zi Yan Zong WAN currently and seems to be working. Can I take Bu Zhong YI Qi Wan together ?  Is there any precautions to be taken?


This post has the following associations:

Formulas: bu zhong yi qi wan, wu zi yang zong wan


Comments / Discussions:

comment by "ChadD" (acupuncturist)
on Sep 2023

The best person to ask is the herbalist who originally prescribed wu zi yang rong wan for you.  In general, any formula/herb can be used with any others with few execeptions, but the main driving force needs to be the reasoning behind the choices.  And these choices involve the actions of the formulas, individual herbs, your diagnosis in tcm terms, dosages, diet/lifestyle, western meds (if any), etc.  So, why are you considering "adding" it? - what is your tcm diagnosis and what are you tring to accomplish?

In general both Bu Zhong Yi Qi Wan and Wu Zi Yang Zong Wan are in the tonify category but with one more focused towards the qi and spleen energy (bu zhong) and one more towards the yang and kidney energy (wu zi yang).  In general terms they are compatible if the supporting diagnosis (ie reasoning for taking them) is valid. 

In general tonifying herbs/formulas have to be used cautiously if the diagnosis is not a true deficiency.  Many times people are either more yin deficient, or have significant aspects of dampness in tcm terms that can be behind their symptoms and these generally involve other approaches before tonification.

 

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comment by "anon208255"
on Sep 2023

Thanks you for getting back. I am 51 and fit using no other medication and exercise frequently. How ever for last couple of years I am experiencing low sexual drive and appetite. My friend recommended wu-zi-yang-zong-wan(revive) and I used it for last 2 weeks(8 pills 3 times a day) and it for sure made it better. However also experiencing a lot of tiredness (nature of the job I do), shortness of breath(playing soccer) noticeably less desire to shout or speak.. so my friend also mentioned about Bu Zhong Yi Qi which may help. Let me know what your thought on dosage if I want to use those together.

Also how frequently should I break from the dosage.. do I need to continue for a long time? 
i an trying a find a tcm practitioner near where I live now.

 

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comment by "anon208255"
on Sep 2023

To summarize:

Low sexual appetite and erection.. 2 weeks of pill surprisingly reversed it to great extent.. planning to continue may be cut the dose.. it also made me quite awake and focused .. only issue I am feeling less sleepy why asking about changing dosage.. I am also starting to do breathing exercise with medication may be helping.

Other things I always feel running out of breath and bit dizzi when playing friendly games.. sometime with slight abdominal discomfort.. did mri and ruled out anything.. however laxatives helped to clear the uncomfort.

just adding to the last post.

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comment by "ChadD" (acupuncturist)
on Sep 2023

You should definitely find a Chinese Medicine practitioner in your area if possible and work with them over a few months at least.  Additionally, you should have a general physical, bloodwork, and perhaps an ekg by a western doctor just to rule out anything serious.

I could go on and on about this, but that will be your practitioners job :-)  In general, people who are active and play sports are rarely truly deficient (ie they are not truly weak).  They may very well be weaker than they like, or experiencing aging/lifestyle changes, etc. but they are not truly deficiency in the Chinese Medicine sense.  

I would suggest you read "My Kidneys are What?" for an idea on the differences between Kidney yang (true deficiency so to speak) and Kidney yin ("tired and wired" - far more common).  The acupuncture and herbal approaches to resolve these issues are significantly different and going down the wrong path - which may even work temporarily - is likely to lead to a worsening of issues over time.  A general list of potential approaches for the erectile dysfunction part is here - but in that list you will see formulas that range widely in the underlying diagnoses in tcm terms that support their usage.

The short version is, that people who play sports and want to have sex are almost always not deficient.  They may not be exuberant like they once were, or want to be, or whatever, but in medical terms they are very unlikely to be deficient.  They are far, far more likely to be strung out (or what we commonly call yin deficient - ie "tired and wired").  This is an entirely different approach.  Now from an online post, I can't say what you have, I can only mention what I've found to be the more common cases over years of clinical practice.

All that said, don't treat yourself which what will functionally become stimulants....  have a practitioner, and a medical doctor, look you over and decide the right path.  This article, while possibly not directly relevant, may also give you some further clues as to how we approach something like this in tcm - "Treating Low Testosterone with Chinese Medicine (Herbal Medicine, Acupuncture and Moxibustion)".  

 

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comment by "anon208255"
on Sep 2023

Thanks for getting back. I think I gave you wrong impression of being overworked from playing games or sexual activities. 
I will consult a practisioner soon. However  wu-zi-yang-zong-wan definitely made a huge difference and hope will get to a more tailored recipe.

 

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comment by "ChadD" (acupuncturist)
on Sep 2023

It's very possible - trying to decipher things from just forum posts is difficult at best.  I hope you get a good practitioner and I'm sure they can help you.  That said, my caution from my clinical experiences remains, the fact that the herbs helped doesn't mean they are correct for your situation.  Tonifying herbs can often help anyone in the short-term but if the underlying diagnosis is incorrect they have the possibility of making the true situation much worse down the road.  I hope you get it all sorted!

 

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