Fatigue and imbalance

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

Zao Ren Tang Pian

Do you mean suan zao ren?

tang pian and wan all mean functionally the same thing, so you are saying you are taking zao ren - which I’m assuming but wanted to be sure is suan zao ren?

Comment by Archived User

yes suan zao ren, i wrote it by mistake

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

What is the dose you have been taking of suan zao ren? And by “helped” what exactly improved and to what degree from taking it. What does your TCM practitioner think, have they tried any other formulas. What is your diagnosis, if you know it, from their perspective in TCM terms? What does your tongue look like?

Long story short, suan zao ren is a fairly mild formula so you are either not taking enough or it needs to be combined with or replaced by another formula.

Comment by Archived User

i have been taking 6 pills/day, 3 pills suan zao ren in the morning and 3 pills suan zao ren at night 1 hour before sleep, i had experienced in the past psychotic episode and was prescribed chemical meds antipsychotic and a/d by western medicine docs which helped ease down akathisia and mental fatigue , lots of adverse reactions to body and mind including fatigue and loss of energy and not the appropriate medical practice by docs
suan zao ren is the only formula I have tried in

Chinese medicine and that’s 2 months only. in previous post you mentioned at least 4 months for prescription to have solid effect. Memory and attention are low and that impacts my performance on the course and thus my emotional aspect.
I attached photo of tongue

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

And are the “pills” the teapills (the tiny brown balls) or capsules? Either way that is likely too mild. You might do better with something a bit more strengthening to the yin and spleen qi. Without knowing you it is difficult to provide too much, so you should likely run this past your doctor. But I would think xiao yao wan perhaps with suan zao ren during the day - an am, noon and dinner dose, then either liu wei di huang wan or qi ju di huang wan at night and see if that doesn’t got a bit deeper.

Comment by Archived User

the teapills, the tiny brown balls.
I get protein from white meat mostly chicken and tuna fish.
i run out of xiao yao wan in teapills and i got for this month in powder form from the UK
what is the time frame for relieving the root cause?
I have 2 days so far with qi ju di huang wan
what Im considering is tal from the a/p will make the symptoms worse if i wean off, can i counteract it with the current herbs?

Comment by Archived User

I have tried suan zao with qi ju di hung wang and have managed to stay with mild withdraw, some high extent withdraw have been counteracted with not high intensity.
i have a question the yin tonifying herb( qi ju di hung wang ) are supposed to be taken during the day or night?

because if taken at night before bed then it disrupts sleep or no?
what is the Chinese practitioner points i should be aware of?

Comment by Archived User

hi,
A different pdr prescribed prozac with sh**prex. I’m not doing the same mistake again with a/d(paxil), remembering these shty drug and struggles ditching this shtty.
and pain in stomach, a hipatologist recommended a ultrasound where a small stone but pain is there in the morning,

sticking to TCM and qi jhu di huang , had some waves and skipped the qi ju di huang some days
i went to 4 different urologist and guarantee its not cause of pain and but the pain is the right side of stomach and reflects on back side. and skin its still yellow cause sth with liver. to encapsulate irritability,fatigue,nervousness, insomnia how to proceed?

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

First, ethically, I can only offer general recommendations online - you should consult directly with a TCM practitioner to get the most tailored advice. But from reading your response, it seems you did not yet try my full recommendation.

Regardless what you are now describing seems to lead to potentially dropping the yin tonics (i.e. qi ju di huang wan - as they can be harsh on digestion if not entirely appropriate and/or taken for too long) and going towards something 3x/day before meals such as either jia wei xiao yao wan w/shu gan wan or shu gan wan with chai hu jia long gu mu li wan.

Comment by Archived User

Chai hu jia long gu mu li with Shu gan wan or jia wei xiao yao wan with Shu gan wan.

the qi jhu di huang wan is not appropriate any more?

Liver qi stagnation which is treated with jia wei xiao yao wan is the same as liver fire?
thanks

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

No liver fire is a different diagnosis than liver qi stagnation - see liver fire — and liver qi stagnation on our site.

Whether or not qi ju is still appropriate for you is something only your practitioner can answer for you. What I’m noticing is you’ve been at this for awhile and not improving in significant ways - so I’m saying, as a practitioner, I would likely be heading in a different direction to see what results I get.

Comment by Archived User

Hi ,
TCM practitioner doctor suggested 3x daily chia

blessed to find right TCM doctor here as per instrusted by TCM doctor chia wei xiao wao with suan zao ren

3x/day before meals and 2x/day
very knowledgable with symptoms pattern
Is irritability and explosive anger treated with current herbs?
still struggling from withdraw from the shitprexa at 3rd day withdrawing
though fatigue with anger present due to present circumstances when fatigue when withdrawing,
insomnia from 3rd day, he suggested when wake up during night apply needles for tension/insomnia to calm but not succesful.

though I cope with my studies.

Comment by Archived User

my father had a very similar issue. after receiving some of the most effective PCT plans, it looks like his fatigue and imbalance disappeared.

Comment by Archived User

TCM practitioner

He recommended to continue jia wei shao wan, I’ve been taking this.
Not worrying is key.

I’m visiting the TCM practiotioner on a weekly basis for acupuntcure. Treating the anxiety I’m waiting from the U.K . my nest delivery.
memory and attention is better, but not perfect
I’m not lucky to get shu gan wan
for comforting my liver.

the last 2 months fatigue set in, maintaing weight but losing important muscle mass due to fatigue.
I wasn’t lucky to get shu gan wan liver
because not available in Athens and I cann’t order from else where
restricted deliveries. and if I order takes 1 month probably more

Comment by Archived User

Nik, I’m not a healthcare professional, but I do have a couple thoughts I’d like to share.

I feel exhausted fatigue from environmental stress and study commitments.

These appear to be root causes of your problems. Can you reduce the stress and not do so much rigorous mental activity?

A daily meditation practice might help you, as well as something like yoga or qi gong.

Not eating or drinking anything raw or served cold, and trying to eat freshly cooked foods may help. Chewing your foods thoroughly sounds like a good idea too.

I hope things can get better soon.

Comment by Archived User

Thank you , I appreciate the advice!

I have started qi gong , there’s a saolin temple school near my neiborghood.
Cold served food , anything cold must be avoided , this is for liver fire?

sleep has deteriorated last month.
btw still having bouts of fatigue, anger and pain in right side stomach that I can’t fully manage.

Comment by Archived User

Thank you

You’re welcome!

Cold served food , anything cold must be avoided , this is for liver fire?

That’s general dietary advice for deficiency-related conditions. If liver fire is part of your diagnosis though, that complicates things, so it’s probably best to get dietary advice directly from your acupuncturist/herbalist.

Comment by Archived User

Fatigue yestserday , physiacal

went for a run yesterday put on 4 laps but last lap fatigue
cant minimize stress
something with liver , pain in liver kir
continuing herbal supplement shu gan whan with jia wei shao
no alternative tai chi because of covid measures, so practising taichi at park

how many days for shu gan whan* to harmonize liver and intestine?

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

It’s impossible to say without being your practitioner and knowing your whole medical history, but combinations such as shu gan wan/jia wei xiao yao wan can in many cases be taken for months to a year or possibly more depending on the person. At least xiao yao wan can be taken for quite some time, shu gan wan you probably shouldn’t need for more than 3-6 months in most cases (or much less). In my patients, if there is limited change after 2 months, then I would generally switch formulas as the formula choice and/or the underlying diagnosis is likely wrong…

Comment by Archived User

TCM practitioner mistakenly believes that conventional AP treatment is required and he advοcates that herbal treatment not getting results he wants thus not suggesting any Herbal treatment

On the other hand cant wean off AP medication because withdrawal sets it with horrible insomnia , nightmares sometimes occur and as a result not getting enough sleep emotional symptoms and fatigue
dark circles and puffiness
thinking of dropping out of pg course due to high demands and not getting support. mental fatigue sets in when taking exams

Can you supply with Shu gan wan and jia wei xiao yao wan from your vendor because the last time I got from the internet was a bit pricey with slow delivery.

Comment by Archived User

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Comment by Archived User

hi,

I wanted to ask about moxa technique to strengthen immune,

If there’s heat in body like liver qi stagnation but at the same time there’s also deficiency imbalance which in this case moxibustion is recommended , what it the definite suggestion about moxa use?

where is Point St36 ?

thanks for feedback

Comment by Chad J. Dupuis, L.Ac.

Everything is a balance - so you have heat in some areas and cold/deficiency in others - this is part of the labyrinth that practitioners are trained to circumnavigate.

So in short, there is no “definite” answer on anything in Chinese Medicine because the entire value of the medicine is the flexible diagnostic framework which tailors every single aspect to the individual at that given moment in time.

For general info on moxa see - “what is moxibustion”
For any point, simple go to our theory site and type the point name (i.e. “ST 36”) into the search bar and then you get usages, functions, locations, etc.: ST 36.

Comment by Archived User

thanks for your response.

how to correct jaundice? and strengthen liver qi?
shouldI order batch Sju Gan Wan and Sua Jao ren because deliveries may delay due to covid.

how to strengthen the immune system? qi gong?
I get cold often

thank you for your response